I sat down with Jessie Sage to talk about our Mommy Domme origins, MILFS, caregiver archetypes, communicating boundaries within relationships, rationalizing desires, and so much more. You can listen to the full podcast here and watch the video on my YouTube channel!
Mistress Danielle Blunt: My name is Danielle Blunt and I am a Pro-Dom based out of New York City and I’m here today with Jessie Sage. Hi, I would love if you could introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about yourself.
Jessie Sage: Hello! I am a phone sex operator, a writer, a content creator, and a sex worker based in Pittsburgh.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Amazing. We have something in common, perhaps viewers can tell by our busty-full attire. Something that we both, or at least I definitely enjoy, is making mommy-dom content and the archetype of a mommy-dom.
Jessie Sage: I love that stuff.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: And you were telling me something about a tweet that got retweeted before we started recording. I’d love if you would share that.
Jessie Sage: It was so weird this morning. This is a weird coincidence that goes full circle. The last article I published was in Hustler and it was just on kinks in general, but I started it with a story of mommy-doming and talking to my client about mommy-doming and that came out last week. This morning, out of nowhere, ZeroSpaces retweeted an article that I wrote maybe two years ago.
The part that she quote retweeted is, and I’ll quote, I Say, “Baby take your clothes off, pick your favorite belt and present your bottom to mommy. She knows what you need. Then I begin to count. He whips himself for each time I tick off.” This was a scene from the first person who was into mommy-doming with me. He was very into spanking, but belt whipping. He called me every Friday after he got off of work.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Like a good boy.
Jessie Sage: Yeah. Every single Friday for a long time. He got mad at me one time and then stopped talking to me. But before that every Friday he would call and he was really into belt whipping and he wanted me to count off his whippings and I would listen to him while he did it and he would go through the whole thing on his own. He whipped himself with his belt while I counted off how many times he was going to do it. We did it every Friday for a long time. It was fun.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: What a hot ritual.
Jessie Sage: I know, I really enjoyed it. I though it was very fun.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I love the consistency of it and also the archetypal mommy punishment, as well, included in it is really interesting. I’m curious, what is a mommy-dom to you?
Jessie Sage: What’s interesting about this is I don’t even really know how to answer this because it’s not as if this is something that I watched a lot of or studied a lot of or anything. I just fell into doing mommy-doming with some of my clients, maybe because I’m a mom and I’m in my 40s, and I have big boobs. I’m not exactly sure why but I started to have a lot of clients who would fall into that and who would ask me if they could call me mommy.
What it’s been like between me and my clients has been them calling me mommy, me telling them what it is that they’re going to do. Sometimes that’s punishment like what I just talked about, sometimes it’s very gentle and they want to do breastfeeding sort of things which I also think is very fun, or they want to just have me nurture them in some ways. And this is a mixing of categories, but I’ve also included mommy-doming in some cuckold fantasies.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Wow. You just made me blush.
Jessie Sage: That’s been very fun. The funniest thing about that is the last time that I did that, it was with… Actually, I guess I don’t have a definition. What I can is that, for me what it’s looked like is me taking on the role of a very sexualized mom who takes charge of the situation and that’s either in the realm of humiliation or in the realm of nurturing or in the realm of punishment. It looks very different depending on what they’re looking for. Often those things are combined as well. Cuckolding, it was much more like, mommy’s going to get something that she needs from this man and you’re going to sit here and watch because you’re just a little boy.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: That’s so hot. I love that. I feel like the mommy-dom gives you what you need not what you want, I think, feels part of it. There’s often elements for me of that super nurturing aspect and encouragement and being very sweet while also potentially being very sadistic and cruel in only the way a mother knows. Only a mothers love could get you that deep.
Jessie Sage: I was actually having a conversation with one of my clients about this the other day. I wrote this into my Hustler article but he said to me, he was like, “I think I like this because I have mommy issues.” And I was like, “Interesting.” And then we talked about that for a little while. And then I was like, “I think I like it because in our culture mom’s are so desexualized that there’s something really erotic to me about taking back your own sexuality but in the role of a mom.” Which is totally different than milf roles, because that has very little to do with actual mom-ing.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I’m so interested in what is the Venn diagram of milf and mommy-dom. I’ve been exploring this on Reddit, trying to see.
Jessie Sage: Have you?
Mistress Danielle Blunt: The overlap is larger than I thought.
Jessie Sage: Oh, interesting.I tend to think of milf as almost as just a category of, this is a person that’s older than a certain age, or who appears to not be 18 years old. If you’re doing porn and you look a little bit older, you get put into the mom category or the milf category or if you have big boobs.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I’ve been milfed since I was 18.
Jessie Sage: The mommy-dom stuff is much more like actually embracing the role of mommy.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: On the other side of that, something that I’ve maybe mentioned before is what attracts me to mommy-dom archetypes is that I feel like women are so often put into the role of caretaker without their consent. The empowering nature of moms being desexualized and taking some of that back and being hyper-sexual in this persona in this space. And also, I’m going to only nurture you and care for you in a consensual and negotiated way that is boundaried and not just expected of me as a woman.
Jessie Sage: Right. I think about this in my own life. I’m the oldest of four kids, I feel like I’ve been a mom since I was 10 years old. In the sense that I’ve had those roles thrust upon me in ways that aren’t consensual. I didn’t actually want to raise kids when I was 10, which isn’t throwing any shade on my own mom. I’m just saying, that often happens when you’re an oldest child. Suddenly, you’re running a household and you’re 11 years old, while your parents are working or whatever.
I think especially as a woman, throughout my whole life, I feel like I’ve been thrust into these roles of taking care of everybody around me. Making sure that everybody is happy, even before checking in with myself and thinking, “Am I happy with this situation? Do I want to do this?” But you’re right that there’s something about taking on the role of nurturing but being very in charge of it that feels really good.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I feel like what can be so cathartic about some scenes is that it has a definite start and an end point. And being able to contain the role of caretaker and step away from it, is something mothers don’t get to do. And also something that a lot of women don’t get to do, who are just thrust into those roles.
Jessie Sage: Right. I think there is something both cathartic and, oh, now I’ve taken care of you, now you go do something else. Go back to my life.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I’m interested in how someone finds a mommy-dom? I know people have come to me since I first starting doming. I feel like people started coming to me for that. How have people found you for mommy-dom things or does it find you? How does someone find a mommy-dom?
Jessie Sage: Do you know what’s interesting about that is I’m actually not a dom, in general. I’m not a dom in other ways. There was a lot of ways that I wasn’t comfortable with the role of dom. But when I found mommy-doming, it was a way that I could tap into it and also really enjoy it. And I think maybe because that nurturing thing comes more naturally to me.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: It’s so interesting. I was just talking to Aussie Rachel about the milf role and working online and having more and more people approach her for kink. She said there’s something about the mommy-dom that’s less intimidating as the ice cold, latex dom. You want the hot mom next door to show you how to please a woman, which is slightly less threatening than the ice queen who’s going to tear you down in a second.
Jessie Sage: I had this very funny situation that I think answers your question, which is that I don’t think that I often put out that’s what I’m doing in a very explicit marketing way. But I think that I steer people in that direction. I have a client right now who’s younger than me. I’m in my 40s, he’s 27 or something. It’s a pretty significant age gap. He had this fantasy of oh, I’m going to be the baller with the hot older woman, who I’m going to walk around and take to a fancy dinner and buy the most expensive champaign or whatever. We were getting into that sort of thing for a while and then one day he wanted me to pretend to pick somebody up at the bar and take him home with me and make him watch. I just fell into the mommy thing and I thought that’s what he was hinting at. Some client will hint at things and they want you to pick up what you’re dropping but they won’t say it outright. That’s what I thought was going on, so I’m like, I’m just going to make this easy for him and I’m going to tell him to call me mommy and I’m going to spin this, this way.
It was really hot and both of us were super into it and then at the end when it was all over, he was like, “I’ve never thought about that in my life, but it was really hot.” And I was like, “What?”
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Because mommy knows what you need.
Jessie Sage: I thought it was him, but it was me. I created that.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: It sounds like a co-creation though because I feel like something you get better at over time as a sex worker and constructing these fantasies is seeing what’s behind it. I’ve had so many experiences where I know someone wants to tell me something and they just want me to read their mind. It’s little instances like that. To me, that doesn’t sound like you projecting a mommy-dom onto someone else, it sounds like you being really fucking good at your job and being like, I think there’s one step further that you haven’t found language for.
Jessie Sage: Right. It was funny, because he was trying to construct it afterwards. He was like, “It made a lot of sense, because why would I be there. But there’s a reason why I can’t actually be in this scene.” I was like, “It’s a fantasy, it doesn’t have to make that much sense.” He’s trying to figure out why is this a good framing for this fantasy? “Oh, I got it, this totally is coherent.” I’m like, “It doesn’t have to be coherent, it’s a fantasy, but okay.”
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Mommy-dom is here to tell you that your fantasies don’t have to be based on reality.
Jessie Sage: I could just tell you to sit in the corner and there doesn’t have to be a reason, you just have to sit in the corner. I think there’s a thing that’s happening and I think you’re right, there’s a co-creation that happens in these spaces. In BDSM or in sex work, in any of these confined moments where you create these scenes.
I had somebody else who did that recently too. He actually sent me a really nice message after we also did a mommy-dom thing where he said, “That was the first time I’ve ever done that.” And then he said, “I don’t really understand my desires, but somehow these seem okay with you.” Because I also pulled him down a mommy thing and he’s like, “That’s the first time I’ve ever done that too.” I’m somehow pushing this on people, but they like it.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I think it’s both, people come to us for it and also I think both of us do have that nurturing. Where it’s like you want to push someone in a way to watch them grow and understand their desires. I’m so many people’s first mommy or mama. I’m currently trying to convince my girlfriend that little. It’s not going great. It’s our edge play. But she does sleep with a baby blanket.
Jessie Sage: Baby steps.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: She told me, “I’m not a little, I’m an Aries.” Like, okay.
Jessie Sage: An Aries. That’s what she said?
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Yeah.
Jessie Sage: What’s the connection for her between those things?
Mistress Danielle Blunt: She’s the baby of the zodiac. I was like, “Okay.” I only know about Leos in astrology.
Jessie Sage: I’m a Pisces. What are you? You’re a Leo?
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I’m a Leo. I truly only know about Leos, which I’ve heard is the most Leo thing one can say.
Jessie Sage: Yeah, because aren’t Leos supposed to be self-centered.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: And big hair. I think it’s really interesting too about mommy-dom. I feel like people carry a lot of shame because it’s connected to a taboo or incest role play, which it not necessarily even needs to be related. Very few percentage of the mommy play and mommy-dom stuff that I do is at all related to an incest role play. For me, because that’s not my experience, it’s the archetype of the nurturer.
Jessie Sage: Right, me too. I don’t even think of it as incest play because I don’t think of them as my children. I think of it more as a role or an archetype. What sort of dynamics do you want to explore and eroticize and that doesn’t mean that it’s your own family members. That means that it’s a thing that you need that maybe you didn’t get or maybe you did get and you miss. I don’t know.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I’ve noticed a lot of shame and stigma also wrapped up in it. I personally do both kinds of role play and like to have more conversations if there’s an incest component in the role play. But I’m not thinking about my mom in any way when I’m doing mommy role play. It’s very much about attunement for me. I think maybe it leads into my next question of how do you be a good mommy-dom?
The first thing that comes to my mind and I think about this every time I talk about mommy play is, I also study psychology. I went to Columbia’s somatic psychotherapy conference and saw this video of mother’s attuning with infants. It was super slowed down to just their eye movement. From the eye movement, you could tell whether the baby was insecurely attached, securely attached or had a disorganized attachment. I thought that it was just this attunement and reciprocity or exchange was so interesting.
I feel like part of being a good mommy-dom is being able to attune with your little, with your baby, with your submissive and being able to make space for generative conflict when that attunement isn’t there. Attunement is such a big part of it for me. I’m wondering for you.
Jessie Sage: I hadn’t really thought of it like that, but that’s really interesting. I think that is something that is more intuitive that maybe I’m not consciously thinking about but does seem to be part of it. I also really feel security in my own body makes me a good mommy. Even in remote things, even over the phone or in camming, or in phone sex or texting or whatever, any form. Being in tune with your own body and feeling comfortable using your body for comfort and allowing for that and giving them permission to feel that within my body, feels to me very central in it.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: It sounds so nurturing too. A mother feeds and nurtures and attunes. I feel there’s so many ways in sexuality and intimacy and just platonic relationships that we don’t have access to that type of touch or care or love anymore. Especially since so many people, so many fucked up relationships with their bio-fams that I think it becomes an opportunity to either recreate experiences that were good, create experiences that weren’t there for you when you were younger. Literally carve new neural pathways of, this is what that type of care feels like or to play with some more intense things and shadow work.
Jessie Sage: Yeah. I just feel in my own work that I very much use my body in order for those sorts of interactions and new ways of inter-relations. I haven’t though this through as much, but I think about it. And I think about one of the reasons that I really like mommy-doming is that there are ways that our own bodies, in the way that our bodies are, are particularly good for that. To have a body that’s open to the other, to be able to feed or nourish somebody, I think feels very good to me. It just feels good to me.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I just finished the book, it’s full surrogacy now, or surrogacy now, or something like that. A lot of it’s about abolishing the family and considering surrogacy workers, laborers. It has a very similar politic to sex workers are workers. I think something that mommy play does, it totally fucks with the nuclear family in a way that creates space for queer love and healing in a really unique way.
Jessie Sage: Yeah. I’m glad that you said this. I’m glad you also brought up the queering of these boundaries because I didn’t at all mean to suggest when I was saying that I think that you need to be a cis-woman to play that role or anything. I don’t think that. I think that it’s not about your particular body but about your relationship to it and what you’re allowing to come out of it, how you’re allowing it to be used and how you’re allowing yourself to reimagine these relationships. I think there is a queering of that, that I think can be really powerful.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Totally. One of doctors, I say this very fondly because she’s a close friend of mine, was one of the researchers behind helping one of the first trans-women breastfeed her baby. She knows a lot about inducing lactation and we were talking about it. One thing that I wanted to do as someone who doesn’t have biological children and has never lactated before, I really wanted to start lactating for lactating fetishist. I’ve done breastfeeding scenes and breastfeeding fetishes and I think it’s so intimate and romantic and sexy. I fucking love it. Before the pandemic, I was planning for my birthday to start lactating and breastfeed all of my guests.
Jessie Sage: I love that. That’s so cool.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: That also made me think, it’s not necessarily related to motherhood or bio-motherhood at all. With queering the family, anyone can take on the role of a mommy-dom. It’s interesting for me because I feel like I oscillate sometimes between mommy and daddy. Sometimes it’s mommy and little boy, mommy and little girl, or DDGL-type fantasies. Recently, I’ve been heavily on a mommy kink.
Jessie Sage: How do you relate differently when you’re mommy than when you’re daddy?
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Daddy feels a little bit sterner to me. It feels a little bit more like I’m playing with my own gender too. At times when I’m feeling more masculine, I often take on a more daddy role. For me when I’m feeling mommy, it’s not even more feminine, just more nurturing and I want to feed you with my body. I feel like mommy wants to give you what you need and what you want. And daddy wants to take what’s his.
It’s a very different energy. I actually recently shot a scene for kink.com and it culminated in a mommy daddy little scene with Robin O’Hare and the Riley Ocean. I was hardcore leather mommy and Riley was hardcore leather daddy. It just felt like my perfect nuclear family. Lots of fisting. My fisting dance, apparently.
Jessie Sage: How did you get into it?
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I think I was always there. I think when I was younger, some of it was more babysitter. I don’t have kids, but I have always babysat and have very close relationships with my younger family members and where I do take on some of a mothering role. It’s always felt really good and comfortable to me. I also think I was just hyper aware of babysitting, the dad’s attention on me and the media around the dad’s attention on the babysitter. It was very fun and cathartic for me in role play situation to turn it around so the babysitter’s in control in a lot of ways.
Jessie Sage: When you were growing up, were you uncomfortable when the dads would drive you home?
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Oh, my God, yes. I actually have a standup bit about this which I’ll send to you.My dad told me all horrible statistics and I was sure that dad was going to do something terrible to me. They were eight houses down, just around the corner from me and he would insist on walking me home every time. I feel so weird about this in retrospect, because he was just trying to make sure I got home safe. I was like, “I will not let you anywhere near me, I know most molestations happen by someone you know.”
I would run home every time. I’d be like, “Thank you so much for the $7 an hour, I’m going to go run. Bye.” And I would fucking book it home and he would just chase me to see if I got home and I was trying to open the door. One time I tripped over a root and I was like, “this is when it’s going to happen, I know it. What is that like for that guy? Does he know what’s going through my mind?”
Jessie Sage: I know, because he’s probably just a normal dude. I think about that now as a parent who’s hired babysitters. For me, if I was to tell PJ, “I’m tired can you go drive her home.” In mind, that makes sense, except that I used to be a teenage girl and that freaked me out. I’d be like, “I’m in this car, I can’t get out. What if he does something to me?”
Mistress Danielle Blunt: The evil babysitter role felt very cathartic for me. I think just being someone who’s always gathered people and nurtured. I love hosting, I love feeding people that feeding people with my body or care was a very natural movement. And it wasn’t until more recently that I found language around mommy-dom. Which is a very hardcore kink for me now. I love the littles in my life.
Jessie Sage: I’m starting to realize it’s a kink for me too, because I think when I first started doing it, it felt like I was doing it as part of my job. And there’s a lot of things that I do in my job that I’m like, I don’t mind it but it’s not my thing. I’m just doing it as a service. I realized, I’m into this. Every time I do this, I am legitimately getting off of my own desire and not because it’s a performance for someone else.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I feel very similarly. Mommy-dom is one thing I really love. When someone looks at me and calls me mommy, I melt a little bit.
Jessie Sage: I know. It makes me a little bit wet.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Even if I don’t want to. I have a few more questions about mommy-dom, but I also want to make that we have time to chat about what can go wrong in mommy-dom situations. What do you think it is that makes someone want a mommy-dom or like to look for a mommy-dom?
Jessie Sage: I’ve talked to some of my clients about this. One of them told me that he feels like he has mommy issues and when I asked him what he meant by that, he said that he feels like he had a strained relationship with his mom. It was somewhat negative, but also he caught himself finding her very attractive and feeling a lot of guilt around that. Being able to separate that out from his own mother and place those feelings somewhere else, I think was really good for him. That’s just one situation.
Jessie Sage: I feel a lot of people who are into that want to feel cared for. Not just being told what to do, but feeling like the person who’s telling them what to do also very much is rooting for their wellbeing, like mommies care about their kids wellbeing. Even if they’re mean and ground them or put them in a corner.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: For growth. It’s effective sometimes that’s the scary thing. I’ve heard similar things. I feel sometimes it’s replacing something that wasn’t there or working through something that was there and shouldn’t have been or just creating space to feel cared for in which we’re so deprived in society.
Jessie Sage: I feel like a lot of times, let me just interrupt with this too, I feel I attract a lot of married men with kids. I feel like even if they’re for the most part really happy with their relationship with their wife, their wife gets really caught up with care taking for the kids. They can’t be as demanding in that space. Their wives are already trying to work and trying to take care of the kids and trying to do all this stuff.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: The wives don’t want to mother their husbands.
Jessie Sage: No. They’re busy trying to run the house, which I totally understand. I don’t think that’s weird at all. I think that there may be a way of, can I get that care that isn’t a reasonable demand on my life partner.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I’m all about outsourcing for everything you can. I think that’s a really interesting perspective too. I feel people are interested in mommy-dom, mommy role play, for so many different reasons. Sometimes it’s just because it’s fucking hot. We just talk about it for hours and theorize and guess and talk about our experiences. Sometimes, it’s just hot. That’s what’s stuck in my head.
Jessie Sage: Sometimes I think it just hits some nerve in you that you’re like, wow, now I’m charged for some reason. It’s erotically charging.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I wonder how many people are going to watch this and then develop a mommy fetish. I love instilling and installing mommy fetishes in people.
Jessie Sage: Apparently, I’ve been busy doing that too because I’ve had many people who are like, “I didn’t know that was a thing and that was really hot.” And I’m like, “Good, okay. Let’s do this again.”
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Mommy knows best. A rapid fire question, what do you think about brats?
Jessie Sage: What do I think about brats? I like people who are a little more compliant better.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I sometimes say that playing with brats is a hard limit of mine.
Jessie Sage: Wow, you’re very much like me. I was like, I want to say that’s great, but I’m like, just do what I said.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I think of this with dog training. You’re getting zero attention from me if you are misbehaving. If you’re a brat, you’re getting corner time. You are going to be completely taken away from contact with mommy.
Jessie Sage: No, I love it when they say things like, “Oh, whatever you want mommy. I want to please you.” I like the ones who want to please mommy.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Mommy’s desire is all that matters. Mommy’s pleasure is all that matters. Whatever mommy wants, I want to give that to mommy. Thank you for letting me such a good little one for mommy.
Jessie Sage: Yes, that’s what I want. I want good little boys who want to be good for mommy.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Yes. Hot. Same. Okay, cool. I’m glad we’re on the same page for that. I don’t have as much time for brats or patience. Mommy’s an impatient woman.
Jessie Sage: Mommy’s a busy woman. I don’t have time to break you all in. You have to just already want to serve me. This is how I think about it.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: What is the connection that you see between mommy-doms and ABDL, adult baby diaper lovers?
Jessie Sage: I don’t know. I’ve only had a couple of clients who were interested in that. Honestly, the ones that were, were less interested in mommy-doming and more just interested in, honestly more just interested in jerking off into their diaper.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Yeah. I’ve had some that are both. I would say ABDL feels more like a fetish and mommy-dom feels more like an archetype or role. It’s very much, I’m jerking off into my diaper, how do I look in my diaper, do you like my diaper, is my diaper fluffy?
Jessie Sage: It’s much more about the diaper than the relationship. I like to do work that’s more about the relationship. I feel uncomfortable speaking on that only because I haven’t had so much experience with that. But in my experience that I have had, it’s felt very different. It’s felt much more about the diaper and jerking off into a diaper than it has about having a mommy.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I think of it as a foot fetish too. I think it can be both. I’ve seen people where it’s just hardcore foot fetish, where it could be any feet and that’s not my favorite. I love foot fetish sessions, but I have a few foot fetishes who it’s my feet that do it and it’s my care with my feet. I’ve had some ABDL session where it’s mommy is changing my diaper because mommy cares about me.
Jessie Sage: That’s more relational though than it is about the diaper itself.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Yeah, right. I feel like in both the foot fetish and the diaper scenario, the fetish can lead or lend itself to the relationship. I always say, whatever you’re into, I’m going to use to get into your head and get you to serve me. Your fetish is just a path for me to control.
Jessie Sage: Yeah. I think there’s something interesting about that and about the fact that in the mommy-dom relationship that I’ve had that have been successful where we’ve both really enjoyed it, it’s been much more about the relational aspect of it and the care taking and the surrender to mommy’s will than about the props. I wouldn’t mind that stuff. It’s not as if i have a problem with diapers.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: You’re mommy. Mommy gives the pacifier. It was merely an extension to surrogate. With mommy stuff, I think so much about that research where the monkey chose to latch onto the wire monkey that shocked it than the one that was soft ans cozy if it was being fed. I think about that a lot. Maybe I can also take on the archetype of the cruel wire shocking, surrogate monkey.
One of my final questions about this is mommy-dom relationships are so fulfilling to me and they sound very fulfilling to you. But I also have found that when mommy-dom relationships go wrong because it hit such a deep relational pattern. I’ve had experiences where people are trying to work through their relational issues with their mother, especially if they’re anxiously attached or have disorganized attachment, oscillate between the two. Especially people with histories of trauma from their families.
Someone also once told me about real kids. It takes so little to traumatize a child. I feel like when we’re playing with little space, it’s something I try and remember and also try and remind them that I am not their real mommy. I am not there for you in that capacity outside of a scene. I do my best to make sure you’re in a good space when we stop playing. But mommy has bad days. Mommy fucks up. Mommy makes mistakes. I feel like there’s not a lot of space in that because mommy’s on a pedestal. My question, where have you seen it go wrong? What are some things you’ve learned about mommy-doming?
Jessie Sage: One of the very early lessons that I learned was, this was a sex work lesson in general, but I learned to not give more than what they ask for. That’s something that I didn’t necessarily anticipate, especially when I was very new to this. For example, that scenario that I read at the very beginning with the person who called me every Friday and whipped himself. He also was somebody who bought a lot of my porn and would watch it. Just vanilla porn, just regular porn stuff. When we would hang up our calls sometimes he would be like, “Okay, well, tonight I’m going to re-watch your videos and stuff.” We were operating on different levels where we did this belt whipping mommy thing and then he also watched a lot of my content.
One day, I had this idea. Why don’t I just make him content that’s exactly what his kink is? Then he’ll be super into that. But that was a terrible idea because I made my partner bend over so I could whip him which is not necessarily his thing, but he’s so game. I was like, “You’re going to get naked and you’re going to do this. I’m going to take your belt and I’m going to whip you and I’m going to record it and my client’s going to love this because this is his thing.” And he’s like, “Okay. All right.” He took a whipping for this person. And then, he was really mad. Now I understand why, but at the time I was much newer and I didn’t understand the whole dynamic. He was mad because he was like, “But that was our thing that we did.”
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Right. That was supposed to be me.
Jessie Sage: How could you bring somebody else in? And I was like, “You’ve watched me with this person in a million different things.” And he was like, “No, but not in our thing.” He got very jealous and very mad and that was the end. We were done. He even got mad and was like, “Why don’t you lower the price for this and make a bunch of money on it because we’re done.” I feel bad in retrospect, but I actually didn’t know at the time. I wouldn’t have made the same decision now, but you make mistakes along the way. You’re trying to figure out, how do you give people what they want and they’re telling you I’m super into this thing. So I’m like, it will be a fun surprise to give you exactly what you want.
But that wasn’t what he wanted and I didn’t understand that. One of the things I’ve learned is not to give people what they don’t ask for because you don’t know what you’re stepping into. You don’t understand how they’re conceptualizing what your relationship is or anything. But that’s true, I think, for a lot of different forms of sex work. I think that these relationships for all the reasons that you said are tenuous. You have to be very careful with them because I think they are often very deep feelings that they have or they’re associating them with very early memories or very deep feelings. It’s easy to step on that in a way that isn’t good for them or good for you.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I think of neuroplasticity and the ability for BDSM to carve out new neural pathways for you, outside of how things ended in the past. Cool, this mommy scene ends with you getting your needs met. It’s not a straight arrow, it’s a spiral of slowly moving out of whatever patterns you’re really stuck in, a lot of the work that I see. Sometimes during a process of that churning of something comes up and I missed something. Two of my most favorite people in my 12 year career have been someone I’ve domed mommy or daddy role play as a significant part of the relationship. Also, have some histories of not getting their needs met as a child. Being adultified at a young age. It is those two relationships where I think both times I got sick and wasn’t able to maintain that level of attunement and it spiraled. I’ve had instances where it’s gotten cruel and those have been the ones that have truly escalated. It’s not abuse allegations or anything like that, but just completely disregarding all of my boundaries and spinning out of control.
I had one, it felt like a vague threat, “This is my therapist’s information in case I do anything.” I also make sure that people are getting mental health and support because I’m not a therapist. I know a lot about therapy, but I don’t have the skills to navigate a therapeutic relationship.
Jessie Sage: Yeah. I’ve had those experiences too. When you’re in a transactional relationship with somebody and they decide it’s not meeting their needs anymore, often they’ll just disappear or they will tell you, I’m in a new relationship and this doesn’t make sense or I don’t have any money. Just really normal things. And you’re just like, “Okay, cool.”
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I feel like it returns to that state of not getting what they wanted or needed as a child. In both of those instances, it felt like a very… I don’t meant this in a judgemental way, but a very juvenile, irrational response to what happened where logic was no longer working because of whatever was triggered.
Jessie Sage: Right. Because with somebody else you could just say, “I’m sick, I can’t give you this attention right now. I need to work on something else. I need to work on myself or I need to get better into a head space where I can do this again.” In your situations, that just not being acceptable, that’s not being something that they can take in and actually really understand.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Because mommies don’t get sick. Mommies are always there, they’re ever present. And it’s an issue when they’re not. I think something that I’ve learned through doing mommy-dom play throughout the years is, I’m still working on it, one thing is I really encourage everyone who’s exploring intense DS things with me to have a kink positive therapist. Which we’re going to talk about more on Friday. To have that support, to have external support. I’m not the only one who knows about this for them. My community is incredibly important both to make sure that they have a space to check their experiences so that if something that I’m doing is wrong, I’m not just like mommy’s always right and that’s taken at face value in a larger scheme outside of a scene. Mommy as the totalitarian. I would like to have people see me and have intense intimate relationships with, be attached to community that can help them communicate with me if a need is missed or miss met. But I think learning about generative conflict too, has been really helpful for me, it’s like how can we use whatever’s coming up now. Because I’m sure it’s not just coming up with me.
I feel like those spaces of conflict. I feel really emotional talking about it too. Someone’s needs is not being met. There’s either a point where you can leave the relationship because it’s the right thing to do or you can leave the relationship because you’re unable to ask for your needs or get them met or have a conversation that would lead to the path of generative conflict of like, my need wasn’t met. I didn’t feel seen and this is what I need moving forward. I feel like being able to create space for some of those conversations to take place, has been really healing for me as well, to not just have it end.
Jessie Sage: I’ve also had situations that have stuck with me where things have turned quickly in ways that made me very worried about their wellbeing. I’m thinking of one situation where one of my clients was very into what we were doing and then all of a sudden, I asked a question like, what are you feeling or how are you feeling about this? And then suddenly, it pulled him out of that and then made him very self conscious about the whole interaction. And then he was like, “I can’t do this anymore. I’m done.” I had to talk to him in a way that you’re talking about and saying, “Listen, I’m really sorry. I did not mean to step over your boundary or pull you out of something that suddenly made it feel like you weren’t safe in this space anymore.” Because, I obviously want everyone who’s playing with me in any capacity to feel safe in that space. It happened so quickly. I do think it’s important what you’re saying because you do need to… He’s somebody who’s still a regular of mine. We have a good relationship, but there was a moment when that happened where he was suddenly very self conscious about his own desires. Especially his desire for humiliation.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: You’re hit with that self reflection that you’re not prepared for.
Jessie Sage: Yeah. And then he’s like, wait, now I’m embarrassed that I want to be so humiliated so there must be something wrong with me so I have to get out of here. That’s not something that I ever want.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I too hope that people feel safe as they can when playing with me, but I really hate the idea of safe spaces because you just don’t know what’s going to trigger someone, like in that scenario.
Jessie Sage: Because all I said was, how are you feeling?
Mistress Danielle Blunt: And that’s a seemingly healthy thing to do as part of a check in. In these inter subjective, two people having totally experiences of something, I cannot guarantee someone’s safety. I can guarantee that I will do my best to work through conflict in as healthy a way as I am able to and have the skills to and constantly add to my tool belt. But intimacy is not safe.
Jessie Sage: Right. I think that’s a really good point.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Intimacy is dangerous because there’s a potential of it being unrequited or of having a rupture. And I think the more I play and the more I learn and the more I fuck up, I think about how important it is to… I try and do this and I don’t do it enough as I should because I feel like you never know who’s going to become a regular, but what do we do when conflict comes up before it comes up or before it’s gotten there. And really just giving people positive reinforcements anytime they bring something up, has been the two tools I’ve been trying to work better with. It’s not like what do we do if something goes wrong? Something is going to go wrong, it might be really little. But I’ve had people be triggered from a way that I looked at them or a subtle touch and no amount of negotiation would have figured that out and especially in a little head space, it can feel very dangerous very quickly in a way that’s really hard to navigate out of.
Jessie Sage: Yeah, because those are visceral feelings that you can’t just say, “Oh, id didn’t mean to make you feel that way.” It’s not like somebody can just pull themselves out of that head space.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: It’s very real, in the moment that is their reality. And that is the reality, that’s where they’ve gone to.
Jessie Sage: Right. This work is very intense. It’s probably why I like it. Not because I want people to be triggered, that’s not what I’m trying to say. But the fact that it can be so psychologically and so emotionally fulfilling, and change people’s lives and their relationships to themselves and to their own history and their own sexuality, I think is really powerful.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Totally. I completely agree. I would say that sounds like a beautiful place to end to me, unless you have anything else you want to say? I will ask you, where can people find you?
Jessie Sage: You can find me on Twitter, @sapiotextual and you can find me and all of my links on my website at jessiesage.com and also I run Peepshow Media, which is at peepshowmedia.com and the Peepshow Podcast and all of the other content’s on there.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: I love it. You can find me @mistressblunt on Twitter and Instagram and onlyfans.com/mistressblunt or stars@avn/mistressblunt and iWantClips. I have a few mommy-dom clips. I don’t know if you want to do a little, we can share some of the mommy goods. Mommy for mommy, is my [inaudible 00:57:11] hands down. Amazing. Thank you so much.
Jessie Sage: It was really fun to talk to you about all of this.
Mistress Danielle Blunt: Thank you.
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